Worldwide Communion of Catholic Apostolic Churches (WCCAC) :: View topic

fr.rogermartinezcsc · Guest

ICAB in the Philippines is using the novus ordo of the Roman Catholic Church.Both English and Filipino.

My question is,do you consider your church belonging to Orthodox Family or simply as Old Catholics?

ICAB in the Phil.belongs or in communion also with Orthodox church of America,member of standing episcopal conference of Orthodox bishops aside from its communion with Patriarchate of Brazil.

Can we have an official canon law of ICAB?

BpAndre · Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:48 pm Post subject: Re: ICAB in the Philippines

fr.rogermartinezcsc wrote:

ICAB in the Philippines is using the novus ordo of the Roman Catholic Church.Both English and Filipino.

My question is, do you consider your church belonging to Orthodox Family or simply as Old Catholics?

ICAB in the Phil.belongs or in communion also with Orthodox church of America,member of standing episcopal conference of Orthodox bishops aside from its communion with Patriarchate of Brazil.

Can we have an official canon law of ICAB?

Fr. Roger, Blessings!

For us in CANC, we see our identity in ICAN. Expressions of faith, Eastern (Orthodox) or Western (Latin), are essentially two sides of the same coin with some variation. As there can be ICAN parishes and churche that use the Tridentine Liturgy, such as us and CACGBI, there can be ICAN parishes or churches that use the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, without problem if both hold the same faith.

We tend to stay away from the current Roman Rite, as we do not want to be seen as a "copy" of the current ROman Church. Also, regardless if your Catholicism originates in 1725 A.D. in Utrecht or in 1945 in Brazil, in both instances the national churches that rose from those times, in both cases, at least initially, retained the liturgy of that time. In the case of both the European Old Catholics and our own beloved Brazilian Mother Church, neither went on to use the same liturgy of the Roman Church. Each found thier own unique identity that is based on thier history.

This is not to say that using the Novus Ordo is wrong, it is a matter of preference. But we have seen, particularly here in the U.S., a backlash against autocepahlous churches who do. And it really is a liturgy that the priest must "work at" to ensure that it is reverently and piously done, especially in light of all of the nonsense in the Roman Church after Vatican II, when liturgists, priests and laity, in many places, lost thier minds - and many a scandalized Roman Catholic suffered through "Polka Masses" and "Clown Masses". Some diocese are still suffering from that effect today. I don't envy them the hard work needed to return a proper sense of the sacred to thier liturgy.

For us, we regard ourselves as essentially and only an ICAN Church, which uses the Western (Latin) Rite. We rationalize this in this manner, if we see ourselves as Orthodox or Old Catholic or [Insert Tradition here], then our loyalties are to both ICAN AND that other tradition. We decided long ago, that whatever we are - we are completely, and can only have allegiance to one family. We see our membership in the communion as being a determining factor in terms of intercommunion with other churches. When a church enters into communion with another, that church is automatically establishing intercommunion between the entire organization they are a part of, and that church they are entering into communon with.

We will not be entering into communion with any church or communion without the express written consent of the Patriarch, because such an agreement should, rightly understood, be approved by the head of the communion we are a part of, who is, of course, the Patriarch. In this way too, no one is scandalized by intercommunion with individuals or organizations that turn out to be unsavory or even un-Christian.

As for the request for ICAB's Code of Canon Law, I would write to Dom Josivaldo, the ICAB Chancellor, who can provide that to you. Every church in every nation, however, has their own specific Code of Canon Law, which is (and must be) in accord with the "ICAN Member Church Statutes" which were distributed to the Primates and Delegates in attendance at the 3rd International Bishop's Council this last July. Dom Joseph Verzosa Galaroza, your Primate, would be able to obtain that document, if it has not already been sent to him.

But getting back to membership in multiple communions - it only causes problems, and I have seen the damage done when one communion or the other require the church body to choose only one. Each communion has its own theology, spirituallity and distinctivenesses that they want you to emulate. For this reason, we are an ICAN church only, in perfect communon with the Patriarch and the Worldwide ICAN Communion.

_________________
Bishop Andre' Jhohn-William Queen, SCR
Vicar General
Catholic Apostolic National Church
Phone: 773.942.4660

fr.rogermartinezcsc · Guest

Dear Bishop,

Thank you.Iam now enlightened.Although im two years in the ministry as priest at ICAB,still ive to learn many things.pardon my curiousity.I was a graduate of a Roman Catholic Theologate and my paradigm is still Roman.

I was asking a copy of your canon law because Bishop Joseph said that we use the Roman canon law?

The Bishop has appointed me as formator of seminarians.may i know your seminary curriculum?

BpAndre · Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 10:35 pm Post subject: Course Curriculum

This is the course of study for most seminarians. If a seminarian has college credit on a comparable course, they can receive credit for it. The course of study takes two years, and is administered in a distance learning format, supplemented by a Ministry Practicum supervised by the rector of the local parish. It is a rigorous course of study, and requires someone very dedicated to completing it.

Prior to being able to begin the course of study, the seminarian candidate must undergo a civil and criminal background check, undergo a discernment interview process, receive certification from a Medical Doctor as to fitness, and undergo a psychological profile assesment.

Only an individual who is truly dedicated and has a deep conviction to live out his calling to the sacramental ministry will complete the program. For the merely curious, or those seeking a "fast track" to ordination, this is a profound barrier.

Masters in Divinity (M. Div.)
Degree Program Course Requirements (60 credit hours)

First Year

Semester One

Old Testament I OT 101
Systematic Theology THE 101
History of the Church HIST 101
Old Catholic History HIST 105
Ministry Practicum I PRAC 101

Semester Two

Old Testament II OT 102
Systematic Theology THE 102
Early Church Fathers I HIST 102
Ministry Practicum II PRAC 102
Church Canon Law CAN 101

Second Year

Semester One

New Testament I NT 101
Comparative Religion I REL 101
Early Church Fathers II HIST 103
Liturgics & Worship I LIT 101
Ministry Practicum III PRAC 103

Semester Two

New Testament II NT 102
Early Church Fathers III HIST 104
Liturgics & Worship II LIT 102
Ministry Practicum IV PRAC 104
Apologetics I AP 101
_________________
Bishop Andre' Jhohn-William Queen, SCR
Vicar General
Catholic Apostolic National Church
Phone: 773.942.4660

jodudan · Guest

BpAndre,
It is a great relief and pleasure to read your statement(s) of faith, dating back to 2003; a great antidote to today's secular demolition of orthodox catholic faith.
I'm new to the board and would like to be informed of the brazilian rite that is natural to ICAN; is it derived from previous older catholic liturgies? Also, is the western latin rite you use in America in English? I'm supposing it's the liturgy of St.Gregory, the tridentine? Are there any ICAN parishes here in Northern California?
Thanks! joseph

Administrator · Site Admin Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 60

fr.rogermartinezcsc · Guest

Dear Bishop,

May I know the present status of ICAB in its relationship with the Vatican?

Did rome lift the excommunication of Duarte costa?

Are you including the name of Pope Benedict XVI at Eucharistic Prayer?

Fr.Roger

Administrator · Site Admin Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 60