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EduardoJDR
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 Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 7:47 am Post subject: Bishop of where and Bishop of what? Sacramental Theology |
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I wonder if any forum member has any thoughts on the following reflection:
Consacration in a line of Apostolic Succession is usually considered to be only one element in 'making' a valid Bishop, along with reception/transmission of the true faith, and the tangible, honourable exercising of the role. (Nothing to worry about here in the ICAN Family I am sure!)
There will, however, unfortunately be a number of people around the world who are validly consacrated in a line of A.S., but have never had -or have lost- any concern for the Catholic faith or their role. A browse on the internet seems to confirm this. So;
Does a valid Sacrament ALONE make one a Bishop? If so, then;
Does a valid Baptism ALONE make one a Christian?
Is there nothing more to being Catholic than a drop of water and mumbling the right words?
I will close with another thought: In the future, how can independent, continuing, non-Roman and non-mainstream Catholicism deal with the fact that while their sacramental history goes back 2000 years, their Episcopal Sees are bound to be of very recent establishment, lacking cultural, historical, or religious significance for the faithful?
I don't know why I'm playing devil's advocate today, but I hope these questions are interesting anyway!
Buona Domenica a tutti quanti,
Fratello Eduardo |
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BpAndre
Site Admin
Joined: 20 Aug 2005
Posts: 126
Location: Chicago, IL.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 2:51 pm Post subject: Re: Bishop of where and Bishop of what? Sacramental Theology |
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| EduardoJDR wrote: | I wonder if any forum member has any thoughts on the following reflection:
Consacration in a line of Apostolic Succession is usually considered to be only one element in 'making' a valid Bishop, along with reception/transmission of the true faith, and the tangible, honourable exercising of the role. (Nothing to worry about here in the ICAN Family I am sure!)
There will, however, unfortunately be a number of people around the world who are validly consacrated in a line of A.S., but have never had -or have lost- any concern for the Catholic faith or their role. A browse on the internet seems to confirm this. So;
Does a valid Sacrament ALONE make one a Bishop? If so, then;
Does a valid Baptism ALONE make one a Christian?
Is there nothing more to being Catholic than a drop of water and mumbling the right words?
I will close with another thought: In the future, how can independent, continuing, non-Roman and non-mainstream Catholicism deal with the fact that while their sacramental history goes back 2000 years, their Episcopal Sees are bound to be of very recent establishment, lacking cultural, historical, or religious significance for the faithful?
I don't know why I'm playing devil's advocate today, but I hope these questions are interesting anyway!
Buona Domenica a tutti quanti,
Fratello Eduardo |
Apostolic Succession is a gift of God, and thus is not based upon the "goodness" of the individual confering or receiving the charism. Because of this, the Church has always recognized tha the Apostolic Succession of those who have left the mainstream church, in whatever century, was still validly possessed and validly transmitted with proper form, matter and intent. Examples of this would be the Nestorian Church, the Non-Chaldean Churches and so forth. The current churches and groups are no exception. ANd realisitically, other than Christ's promise and the grace of God, there is no way to guarantee the valid possession or transmission of any sacrament. We must remember that it is God who bestows the grace, through the proper minister of that sacrament.
In the Old Testament we read how circumcision was commanded by God as the symbol of faith. But we also see how failing to observe this symbol of faith could result in bringing down God's judgement.
As the New Testament Sacraments are pre-figured in the Old Testaments, we also see that the Old Testament symbols are perfected in grace as Sacraments in the New Testament. And so, what circumcision was to the Jew of the Old Testament, Baptism is to the Christian in the New Testament, that is, the initiation into the family of faith and the begining of ones responsibilities as a member of God's family, as an adopted son or daughter. The key to remember here, is that in the New Testament, these Sacraments are infused with God's grace, and so are more than symbol. Not because of who we are or what we do, but because of who Christ is. Baptism, even if by a non-Christian, if that individual does what the Churc intends to do, with the proper form and matter, is valid. Any sacrament conferred lacking proper form, matter and intent, is invalid.
Baptism is the initiation into the family of God, and with it comes the infusion of grace. We then are called as Christians to live out our lives in imitation of Christ, and in accord with His guidance as provided by the Apostles and thier successors. To be Christian is to live what one professes, it is to live the Christ-like life.
And so, the Eastern Orthodox Churches, the Roman Catholic Church, the Armenian Apostolic Church, the Polish National Catholic Church, the ICAN Churches and others who have maintained Apostolic Succession with the proper form, matter and intent, as we have been taught through Apostolic Tradition, have valid orders.
However recent one's See is of no effect to the validily of one's Orders. And as the Apostles traveled, and others they consecrated, such a "rule" would necessarily invalidate thier ministry and the effect of thier orders.
_________________
Bishop Andre' Jhohn-William Queen, SCR
Vicar General
Catholic Apostolic National Church
Phone: 773.942.4660 |
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EduardoJDR
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 3:51 pm Post subject: Apostolic Succession and Episcopal Sees |
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Hello again Mons. Queen, hope you are well.
Thank you for this very rounded answer. Of course, I should have pointed out, I did not mean -in my final reflection- to suggest that a recently established See puts validity into question.
In fact, none of my query was about validity of the Sacrament and Apostolic Succession as such, but rather about the -how can I put it- authenticity of the role of Bishop -- Of course, God decides ultimately, as you point out. Apostolic Succession is no magic wand. Sacrament means committment, and that can only be an answer -to God- from the individual and the community.
I still say that there's a difficulty (nothing to do with validity) over the establishing of new Sees. People and communities today have a different relationship with the areas they live and work in. People are more mobile. Yet the centuries-old Sees are deeply embedded in our culture: Anglican still means (in most people's minds) England -Canterbury- and Catholic still usually says "Rome" to people. How can we get over this, as I am sure that these problems of association/identification hinder people's vision of the one worldwide Church.
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BpAndre
Site Admin
Joined: 20 Aug 2005
Posts: 126
Location: Chicago, IL.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:09 pm Post subject: Re: Apostolic Succession and Episcopal Sees |
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| EduardoJDR wrote: | Hello again Mons. Queen, hope you are well.
Thank you for this very rounded answer. Of course, I should have pointed out, I did not mean -in my final reflection- to suggest that a recently established See puts validity into question.
In fact, none of my query was about validity of the Sacrament and Apostolic Succession as such, but rather about the -how can I put it- authenticity of the role of Bishop -- Of course, God decides ultimately, as you point out. Apostolic Succession is no magic wand. Sacrament means committment, and that can only be an answer -to God- from the individual and the community.
I still say that there's a difficulty (nothing to do with validity) over the establishing of new Sees. People and communities today have a different relationship with the areas they live and work in. People are more mobile. Yet the centuries-old Sees are deeply embedded in our culture: Anglican still means (in most people's minds) England -Canterbury- and Catholic still usually says "Rome" to people. How can we get over this, as I am sure that these problems of association/identification hinder people's vision of the one worldwide Church.
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A See, as such, is merely a method of recognizing the local body of the faithful. The chief responsibility of a bishop is to be a spiritual father to the local faithful. A bishop then, is the chief sheperd of a local church, and is responsible for thier care. This includes the people who are permanent residents as well as any of the faithful from other churches who may temporarily be or reside within the specific area.
Areas, cities, and centers of commerce that are relevant to day, in time are no longer so. That being the case, our concern then is the people. Wherever there are faithful, there can be a new center of spiritual renewal, new cities of notice where the Holy Spirit moves. Brazil is a perfect example, where St. Carlos established ICAB, and that small begining spread like wildfire. And so catholic there means "Roman Catholic" but also "Brazilian Catholic". In Utrecht, catholic means "Roman Catholic", but also "Old Catholic". In Poland, catholic means "Roman Catholic" but also "Polish Catholic". People can make the connection, we need only give them a chance.
The centuries-old centers of Christianity are not the concern, but reaching people today, which means we must be more flexible, mobile, innovative than our much larger cousins - we must do what they will not do. Our job is to educate people as to who we are. This can be a large task, but not insurmountable. Once again, the Holy Spirit can touch off a renewal anywhere, and with God leading you forward, no one can stop that renewal.
_________________
Bishop Andre' Jhohn-William Queen, SCR
Vicar General
Catholic Apostolic National Church
Phone: 773.942.4660 |
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